P&P v2 [Was: Re: Idea bounce]

[Larry D. Hols]

Hallo,

>> || Well I still disagree. The system makes you choose between social,
>> physical
>> || (fighting), and magical concepts. Now a magic user chooses magic as
>> his
>> || priority. This limits his characteristics and/or wepon proficiency,
>> which
>>
>> Technically, it only limits his INITIAL abilities.  Eventually,
>> assuming he lives long enough, he could be just as mean a fighter as
>> he is a wizard.

        Thought I should jump in here.
        A mage chooses Magical development as primary emphasis.  This
limits physical development on in that he cannot have as much experience,
expertise, characteristic points, and keen abilities--in OVERALL terms--as
a character with physical emphasis.  This character CAN have good
characteristics, CAN have good weapons skills, CAN have good experience,
and CAN have several Keen Abilities.
        And, as pointed out above, all of this deals with initial levels.
The characer creation process is meant to lead players into creating a
character they can enjoy playing and one with a coherent concept.
Development after that is possible in all areas.

>> || can be increased only so much during play. Even if I shift it
>> around so to
>> || work around this problem as much as I can, that results in poor
>> social
>> || abilities. So choosing a primary development area limits me in the
>> other areas.

        This is not so.  For example, the area of social development
includes contacts, allies, knowledges, and status, all of which can be
developed in play without being limited by choices made during character
creation.  I fail to understand why matters are perceived otherwise.

>> Unfortunately, I don't think that will happen.  As much as I like the
>> system, there enough flaws, quirks and oddities (much as we love them)
>> that will turn off new players (which is what we want).  AH is not
>> likely to roll the presses for us alone -- they need the new blood to
>> ensure a cash flow to fund more stuff, in a never ending flow until
>> all other systems are crushed :)
>>
>> And there are many places the old rules needed reworking -- several
>> spells are really out of whack with regards to play balance, some
>> concepts fleshed out, others trimmed.  P&P needs more than just a new
>> printing of the old books.  It is a bit worn and long in the tooth,
>> but unlike many other older systems (like AD&D) there is still an
>> underlying core of excellent concepts that make it a great system: the
>> "increase by use" skills, skill levels limited by attributes rather
>> than starting from attributes (the biggest problem with GURPS, IMHO),
>> the CEL+EL concept, etc.

        Hear, hear!

>> What I see as optimal would be a new system that retains all of the
>> best concepts of P&P, with a more cohesive set of resolution
>> mechanics.  This system needs to have the same FEEL as P&P, not
>> necessarily the same mechanics.

        A man after my own heart.  I'm making this process very public
within the P&P community because I value that feel and want to emulate it
as strongly as possible.  If that requires a percentile system, I'll do it.
If that requires going diceless (perish the thought!) I'll do it.

>> Don't get me started on diceless games. :)

        What he said!

>> Not rare enough.  It fits some genres, not all.  I could live with a
>> set of "career" descriptions provided to make character generation
>> simpler.  For example:
>>
>>     Marentian Knight Package (xxx expertise points)
>>         EL5 Heavy Sword
>>         EL5 Horsemanship
>>         etc...

        This approach is being considered as optional material.
        I'm also looking at placing examples of skill selection in without
having them as packages to be bought.

Larry
I'm thrilled to hear the varying viewpoints.