Naval Ships and Tech discussion (LONG)

[Matijs_van Zuijlen]

First posting for me...
I've been following the ship tech discussion a bit, and something
sparked an idea:

> Oh, yes.  Definately something on the large side, like whatever the Portugese
> used to get to Japan.
>
I remember watching a TV programme about china, and it mentioned
China's incredible ship technology. This allowed them to build, long
before these portugese sailed by, large ships that could have
conquered Europe. Luckily, they were to centered on their own country
for conquest.
The point I want to make here is: Perhaps it's a good idea to look at
how some non-westerns technology evolved, both for ships and armor
(e.g., how does Japanese armor tech synchronize with their ship tech.
Same for China). This might lead us to be a little more lenient about
tech levels in P&P.

Matijs van Zuijlen.
Date:         Mon, 1 Dec 1997 08:04:46 -0500
Reply-To:     Powers and Perils <POWERS-AND-PERILS at DUTCGEO.CT.TUDELFT.NL>
Sender:       Powers and Perils <POWERS-AND-PERILS at DUTCGEO.CT.TUDELFT.NL>
From:         Scott Cohan <scott.cohan at SSA.GOV>
Subject:      Re[4]: Naval Ships and Tech discussion (LONG)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: Quoted-Printable

 =20
It's not so much that I object to the vast difference in tech levels, i=
t's that=20
some things in the game itself don't make sense with the ship tech as s=
tated,=20
namely, the distances that those ships must cross over open seas.  The =
trireme=20
is primarily a land-hugger, especially considering that it can only hol=
d 1 or 2=20
days worth of food for those onboard (and that's assuming extremely sim=
ple=20
provisions, i.e. porridge and a handful of figs).  There are two major =
routes=20
which have to be examined. =20
     We know, from the Sea of Tears article, that ships leaving Pelara =
for=20
Rogh'sa must sail south to Maoun first, and then hug the coast west tow=
ards=20
Rogh'sa.  Therefore, they must have ships capable of travelling 240 mil=
es (11=20
and 2 =BDhexes) in, at most, 3 days.  That's 80 miles a day, assuming a=
 bee-line=20
course, with no drifting, etc.  That is at the outer limit of possibili=
ty.
     Also, the poor Climans must make a 550 mile trip (27=BD hexes) fro=
m Affea to=20
Clima (the little fort on the Western edge, not the capital) in the sam=
e time. =20
Also, the Climans cannot stop anywhere along the way, because they woul=
d be=20
attacked on sight. =20
     Now, in my previous email, I established that the maximum range fo=
r a=20
trireme is around 90 miles/day (trireme reconstruction managed a cruisi=
ng speed=20
of 4 knots, figure 6 for better oars and trained crew, figure +3 knots =
for=20
magical additions, that's 9 knots and assuming rowing 10 hours a day). =
 That=20
means the the Pelara-Maoun trip is easily manageable, assuming the crew=
 eats a=20
hardy breakfast before they leave (to save room for rations).  However,=
 it still
means that the Climans must make a 6 day trip at least.
     As far as examining non-western cultures for the same type of info=
rmation,=20
I'd love to.  However, I can barely find this information for Western c=
ulture. =20
If there are any people with extensive shipbuilding historical informat=
ion for=20
China or Japan or even Polynesia, I'd love to see it.  Or even a book t=
itle=20
might be nice.  It seems that most people (those who write books on the=
 subject)
don't care about shipbuilding before 1776.
     It's my opinion that the creators of Powers & Perils simply didn't=
 know of=20
any pre-cannon ships except for triremes.  I've been trying to find mor=
e=20
information on Roman-era ships (which I think would be just about perfe=
ct), but=20
so far, no luck.  It seems to me that these would be just about right, =

considering that they managed to fight a naval battle with Carthage, so=
 the=20
ships used should be just about right.

Scott Cohan

______________________________ Reply Separator ________________________=
_________
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Naval Ships and Tech discussion (LONG)=20
Author:  Powers and Perils <POWERS-AND-PERILS at DUTCGEO.CT.TUDELFT.NL>  a=
t=20
##Internet
Date:    11/29/97 02:07 PM


First posting for me...
I've been following the ship tech discussion a bit, and something=20
sparked an idea:
 =20
> Oh, yes.  Definately something on the large side, like whatever the P=
ortugese=20
> used to get to Japan.
>
I remember watching a TV programme about china, and it mentioned=20
China's incredible ship technology. This allowed them to build, long=20=
=0Abefore these portugese sailed by, large ships that could have=20
conquered Europe. Luckily, they were to centered on their own country=20=
=0Afor conquest.
The point I want to make here is: Perhaps it's a good idea to look at=20=
=0Ahow some non-westerns technology evolved, both for ships and armor=20=
=0A(e.g., how does Japanese armor tech synchronize with their ship tech=
=2E=20
Same for China). This might lead us to be a little more lenient about=20=
=0Atech levels in P&P.
 =20
Matijs van Zuijlen.
 =20
=