Website Additions

[Wout Broere]

At 09:08 PM 3/28/2002 -0500, you wrote:

>I visited the main pnp site last night and found a bunch of stuff I never
>saw before.  You might want to keep a site report of what's new
>and such if you have time so we know what's recent and what's updated..etc :)
>Just a suggestion..


There such a list, at the index page, bottom right . It says NEW there.
That is where the notices of any changes or additions to the website are
displayed. At least, if I remember to enter them to my log files, from
which the list is generated, and that is something I sometimes forget of
course. Downside for those who do not visit that often, is that the items
on the list are only kept for two months (or longer if the website isn't
updated in the meantime).

Ft


Wout Broere             broere at powersandperils.org
P&P Website:            http://www.powersandperils.org/  or
                         http://geo.citg.tudelft.nl/broere/pnp/
Date:         Sun, 31 Mar 2002 22:10:51 -0500
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From:         Scott Adams <longshot at DARKTECH.ORG>
Subject:      Re: Crafting (and Wages)
In-Reply-To:  <9150DCE0CCB4D411A7DB00508BB0DBF2012862B3 at msx1am.matrixone.net>
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At 01:50 PM 3/29/02 -0500, you wrote:
>|| Also remember wages vary.=A0 A smithy in X land won't get the
>|| same pay as in Y land due to various aspects.=A0 Some are specilized
>|| and some aren't.=A0=20
>
>True, but I suppose it depends on how deep into the detail you want to get.
>I plan to keep it simple, as a set of guidelines.=A0 The eventual document
>will be in word, so GMs that download it from Wout's site can tweak as
>needed.

Yeah if your crazy I suppose you could do it country by country to get
real detailed oriented :).  I'm detail oriented in things like that but
not that crazy :)   Word is good...

>
>|| >
>|| >--------------
>|| >Name=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 Weekly Wage=A0=A0=A0 Monthly=
 Wage=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=20
>|| >Bearer=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 2CC=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=
=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 10CC=20
>|| >For general carrying and lifting.=A0 Can move 500 pound/miles per site=
 per
>day
>|| >(250 pound/miles for a single direction of carrying), maximum of 50
>pounds
>|| >at a single load.
>||=20
>|| If you needed a labor force you could use PA as some form of criterion
>for pay
>|| as
>|| well?
>
>The above price was based on Joe Average Bearer, S 15 and Carrying EL 20
>(Sx2 + 20 =3D 50).=A0 Presumably a 2x Laborer with S 30 and perhaps EL 40=
 in
>Carrying would be paid 50% more (3CC per week).

Ahh...ok..

>
>I have started working on the document already.=A0 All occupations will be
>given a rate based on the usual term of hiring (most skilled occupations=
 are
>hired by the week, short terms ones are done on a day-by-day bases).=A0 All
>rates assume 6 days per week, 5 weeks per month (as based on the P&P
>calender I posted a while back).


>
>In a related note, I was checking on the stats for a laborer.=A0 In effect:
>"Working in teams with good equipment, 250 cubic feet of earth or sand or
>125 cubic feet of rocky soil can be excavated per man per day."

That's cool.  If its based on something :)

>
>250 cubic feet is a ditch 2.5 feet deep by 10 feet wide and long.=A0 Does=
 this
>seem like a lot to you (perhaps not, given a 10 hour day...could I
>personally dig out about a cubic yard of earth in an hour?=A0 I think I=
 could.
>I'd be pretty beat by the end of the day, though.

I forgot about the medieval 10 hour shift thing.  Was thinking in modern
times.
Good point.  Also with the ditch good point.  See when its explained
like that it makes more sense :)  Course you have to figure out substance.
Like Granit, hard rock, volcanic rock, plain sand..etc..

>
>However, given this, 250 cubic feet of soil is about 13 TONS of earth. Good
>Lord, could I actually dig out that much dirt?

Does seem high.  I get pooped doing a pickup truck load of dirt :)
But I'm a programmer not a laborer :)

>
>Free useful link enclosed:
><http://www.tesarta.com/www/resources/library/weights.html>http://www.tesa
rta.com/www/resources/library/weights.html
>(I used an average of clay and dry sand for my earth weigh calculation,
>rounded to 115# per cubic foot)

Cool.

>
>Do these numbers seem to high?=A0 Anyone here with any serious excavation
>experince (picks and shovel work) to chime in on this?

I remember somewhere theres a site that Time Scientists do..hmm where
they calculate moves into a sequence of moves nad clock them for
efficiency....err...time studies or something like that but it had just
about everything from opening a letter to flying a plane...
I'm a sure a dedicated beaver could find it on the web...

>
>||>Thatcher=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 3CC=A0=A0=A0=A0=
=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 15CC=20
>||>Can create up to 1,300 pounds of thatching per day.
>||>
>||>Quarryman=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 3CC=A0=A0=A0=A0=
=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 15CC=20
>||>Can quarry up to 3,300 pounds of stone rubble or up to 600 pounds of cut
>||>stone per day=20
>||
>||Same as thatcher?=A0 They get killed alot more from rock slides and=
 such...
>||hazard bonus? :)
>
>True.=A0 Thatcher should get more then general labor since it is=
 semi-skilled
>work.=A0 perhaps 25BB per week for a Thatcher then.=A0=20

That's acceptable.   Course like in modern times thatchers tend to be cheap
labor ie immigrants..

>
>Quarry work is not the same as working underground, but I agree it is more
>dangerous then chipping out rock.=A0 I think upping it to 4CC per week is=
 good
>(4x the cost of digging rocks out of the earth).

Cool and that'll give a base figure for a typical 'miner'.  Good enough.

>
>||Brickmaker=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 5CC=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=
=A0=A0=A0=A0 25CC=20
>||>Can produce up to 50 cubic feet of fired brick per day (6,000 pounds),
>||>provided he has a kiln.=A0 Can also produce 100 cubic-feet of dried mud
>block
>||>per day (9,600 pounds)
>||
>||3 tons of brick a day!?=A0 That's a bit high to me...
>||When I was in a medieval city (ok..williamsburg though not medieval it
>||was pre-colonial) the smith there did about a half to a ton...if i
>recall...
>
>Thinking on the lines of 6 bricks per cubic foot (1 foot long, 6 inches
>wide, 4 inches high), that is 600 bricks.
>
>Over a 10 hour day that is 1 brick per minute.=A0 It says in the notes I=
 have
>that this involves a team of laborers (one filling molds, other mixing up
>the mud, others tamping it down and other carrying it off to drying
>stations.=A0 If one person had to do this, yea it would be a lot longer.
>However, seeing as how it takes a team to do this, that would imply a=
 higher
>rate than 1 per minute in order to get the 600 bricks/person, but It does
>not seem too exteme (other than being a lot of work).=A0 I'd be willing to=
 cut
>this down by half (50cf of brick/300 bricks) in order to get some rest time
>and to allow for a little more reasonable pace.=A0 And the rate above was=
 for
>mud brick.=A0 Fired brick is produced at half the rate, so we get 25cf of
>fired brick

That's a good compromise.  In williamsburg they used a huge stove for
bricks that could do enough bricks for a icehouse in just 2 days.  Course
how big a typical icehouse is...who knows :)

>
>And the weight as I had it was wrong anyways.=A0 100cf of brick (after=
 firing)
>will weigh 5.7 tons, so even the cut down 25cf will be 1.42 tons of brick.
>Note that it will take an equal volume of straw (200#) and double the=
 volume
>of wood (2000#) to make this 25cf of fired brick.

Oww..my muscles :)
In the 1930s when they still did bricks in buildings guys would carry a load
of bricks on this shoulder type wheel barrel thing...I read those guys could
lift 125--175 pounds of bricks up usually 3 flights either on stairs or a
ladder..
man...those guys were strong...I saw one do it on I think Rijpley's believe
it or not in a black and white film...

>
>and I note that my 1.42 tons of brick is within spitting distance of your
>williamsburg 0.5 to 1 ton (since they don't do it all day to the exclusion
>of nothing else).

Yep..course williamsburg was coloniial 1600s+  not medieval 'technology'.

>
>||>
>||>Soldier=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 4CC=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 20CC=
=20
>||>Basic Warrior I, provides primary weapon and basic armor.
>||>
>||>Scout=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 3CC=A0=A0=A0=A0=
=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 16CC=20
>||>Basic Scout I
>||
>||Wouldn't the scout get more since they are specilized trained to stealth
>||operations and such?
>
>This comes from my old 'Dogs of War' posting. "Soldiers" are those that
>concentrate on S and St, and thus more front-line troops.=A0 "Scouts"
>concentrate on D and A, and more of the archer corp.=A0 Since the scouts
>tended to have less HP, and by the formula actual ability to take a beating
>as well as OCV was factored into the value formula, Scouts got shafted in
>pay.

I was reading that very article at work today among others...
Could you do a bit on nevy?  ie sailors for the mass combat conversions
and troop strength?  i could but not sure if you've done that already
or not...:)   Sailors...etc..

>
>However, they usually made up for it when you added their bonuses for being
>an archer.=A0 But in general, being less capable then a front-line soldier
>they get less pay.=A0 Such units placed into danger as true scouting units
>could easily command 50% more then the base pay.

True enough.

>
>||But it all depends on various factors like lands, supply/demand and
>||such.=A0 So it is a case by casie basis for me.=A0 A lumberjack would
>||get zilch in Clima unless hes sent to their oversea lumberjack facility
>||but a quarryman might make decnet amount on clima.=A0 But
>||it would be the reverse say for the Great Forest
>||the lumberjack could find plenty of work but as a oversupply they
>||might make less..


>
>I think that is definitly a GM call. The values I am collecting will be the
>baseline -- the GM is free to stiff certain occupations in certain regions,
>but as an "average" to work with the idea is sound.

Yeppers...the mighty GM gets the decision ...fun fun :)



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