[PnP] How do you balance encounters?

Thu May 1 20:19:04 CEST 2014

I'm reposting the message again because i think i made some mistake with the previous sending:

I think that i found the answer today whilst reading through the books.

I was reading book III (creature book) and at the end of the book (page 59) i was struck by this phrase written by Snider:

"For play balance, the referee should restrict the total AHP of the forces that a party can encounter to three times the parties total HPV or less.

To preserve the challenge of encounters, except in special circumstances, the Character party should never have more than a three to one advantage over the force that they combat, except in special circumstances during an adventure".

Now, i must admit that i'm quite confused.Maybe it's because i am not an english mothertongue or it's just because Mr Snider isn't quite clear here?

I take the first phrase to mean that:

-the referee can arrange an encounter (for instance) with a single monster that has 120 hpv whereas the total hpv of the party is 40 (40x3=120)

while the second phrase means (again, as i got it):

-the party can (and should have, most of the times except in special circumstances) three times the chance of winning over a monster or an encounter, so the referee can arrange an encounter where there are 2 ogres totalling 20 HPV whereas the party total HPV can be of 60 (20x3), but not more than that.

Am i right? what do you think?

> -----Original Message-----
> From: longshotgm at comcast.net
> Sent: Wed, 23 Apr 2014 18:50:20 -0400
> To: pnp at list.powersandperils.org
> Subject: Re: [PnP] How do you balance encounters?
> 
> 
> That works well.
> Nice thing about pnp is you can do that with ease.
> Richard made it just for that reason.
> 
> 
> At 02:55 AM 4/21/2014, you wrote:
> >My 2 CP,
>> 
> >As far as i'm concerned i use another formula for the CDF:
>> 
> >MEL/2 + CEL/5 + HPV/10 + CL
> >+1 per advantagous ability (combat ability, magic items,  resistance,
> >immunity etc)
> >-1 per disadvantagous ability (low morale, afflictions, prohibition etc)
>> 
> >Doing the same with player's caracters you can compute the encounter
> ratio.
> >Above 2-1, the combat will be one sided
>> 
> >TNT
> >-----Message d'origine-----
> >De : pnp [mailto:pnp-bounces at list.powersandperils.org] De la part de
> Scott
> >Adams
> >Envoyé : lundi 21 avril 2014 03:29
> >À : The Powers and Perils Mailing List
> >Objet : Re: [PnP] How do you balance encounters?
>> 
>> 
> >Alex, Paul, David all had good points.
> >Balance is serious work.  I believe in balance a a lot.
> >But experience is the best judge.  Most GMS go from Grade E to A in my
> view.
> >Grade E newbies are those who are 80% hack and slash and 10% characters
> and
> >10% plot.
> >Grade A tend to be the best 70% plot, 10% hack/slash and 20% characters.
> >I used to be Grade E in the 80s using CEL as a balance.  But it quickly
> fell
> >through bad times.
> >Very few are Grade A+.  Oout of the hundreds I only know of 4-5 GMS that
> are
> >grade A+.
> >So it is mostly experience.
> >CDF is good bu it can be dangerous.
> >A CDF 8 dragon might seem bad but for some characters they are easy.
> >Yet a CDF 1 monster that has a ability to kill with a look can be more
> >dangerous.  So CDF is not a good factor.
> >If I reclal Soul Davias for example are low CDF?  But they are quite
> >dangerous to underestimate.
> >I tend to look at it case by case basis for pcs.  I have a 8 foot 800
> pound
> >Bard that can handle likley a army on his own with 70 odd hp.  But he
> can be
> >downed by a simple spell.
>> 
> >I have a person who uses dual daggers.  I tend to konw she can handle
> more
> >than one person so I figure more than 1 for her. Yet I have a small
> Faerry
> >that is weak somewhat (not fully) but can be understimated by the bad
> guys
> >who cna tke out a hundred bad guys with her bow.
>> 
> >I also look at the gear.  A person wearing AV7 magic armor  can handle a
> >tougher bad guy than one who is weairng no armor.
> >I see a person who has magic toys is out balanced by their use so I may
> >overwhelm that person so that the toys are useless.
>> 
> >I don't on purpose design some encounters to be mean.  For example my
> last
> >enocunter I had
> >5 human npc males
> >2 great apes
> >1 unknown magic user (will not reveal here since aprt is looking:)  )
>> 
> >vs the
> >Giant Bard, Shman/Wizard, Dagger Maiden, Faerry so 8 vs 4 more or less.
> >The humans are wimps and taken out fast.
> >But the apes do damage.
> >The unknown bad guy takes out he giant and could've killed him.
> >So I balance the giant with a simple few magical words.
>> 
> >There is no rule of thumb here.
> >One must see teh pc as a whole their gear, skills and experience.
> >a Newbie player who is doing a fighter with bogus gear and skills is
> useless
> >if he can't figure out how to do tactics in a fight.
>> 
> >But a overconfident giant who fears nothing cna be taken down without
> even a
> >blade.
>> 
> >A gm shouldn't every fight to kill.
> >In fact balance it.  3-3 easy ho hum batles.
> >This tends to make players cocky.
> >Then bam a hard fight.
> >Reel them in for their bravado.
>> 
> >A gm who sends 100 goblins against 10 pcs sees the pcs dead.
> >But a SMART player who can wipe them out with a simple XYZ spellcan be a
> >great balance.
>> 
> >In my mind I have a irrational math for balance.
> >If I see a player pick up a Sword of Doom and Chainmail of the Gods then
> I
> >see that as a certain factor of points to balance it out.
> >So let's say in my mind I have 20 points vs 25 a fair balance.
> >But if i see naked pcs with nothing but a few sticks swarmed by a trible
> of
> >goblins then in my mimnd it might be 50 to 10 a unfair balance.
> >So I allow outs.  Outs are critical to every encounter.  If your stupid
> >enough to need the cup on the altar across the room then go get it.
> Just be
> >careful of the lava on the floor.  If you need to cross a roof with 200
> >archers on teh ground below then you deserve to die playing pin cushion.
> >But there is always a out.
> >The same lava can be skipped by that vine in the roof if only you can
> get
> >there.
> >Same roof can be crossed with that tower shield the guard left.
> >If you can see a out it is always there.
>> 
> >For the goblins if you can simply jump off the cliff to th eriver below
> to
> >avoid them then do so.
>> 
> >Balance is hard to figure out.  But give folks a way out.
> >Kobayshu Maru no win things are NOTFun for players.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>   PM 4/19/2014, you wrote:
>> >Hi all,
>>> 
>> >how do you manage to balance encounters in P&P?
>>> 
>> >I have a group of four players:
>>> 
>> >Ennon: OCV 2, DCV 4
>> >Gunnard: OCV 9, DCV 8
>> >Darrel: OCV 3, DCV 5
>> >Habbakuk: OCV 6, DCV 5
>>> 
>> >the average hit point value of each character is around 20, except for
>> >Gunnard who has 33 HPV.
>>> 
>> >Given this situation, i always have doubts as to which creature
>> >(monster) they should face.
>> >As you probably remember, Richard Snider at the end of book IV stated
>> >that "the situation that evolves in your game must be designed such
>> >that:
>>> 
>> >A) they are not automatic victories for your players AND
>> >B) they are situations that the party involved can win
>>> 
>> >I always try to stick to this (apparently simple) rule, but it is not
>> >so easy, so i would like to know how you are used to managing
>> encounters.
>>> 
>> >I think it is a mistake for the game master to throw monsters at the
>> >party that are too strong to beat, but at the same time the player's
>> >skills must be put to test, that is why i think that encounters should
>> >always be balanced.
>>> 
>> >Now, how to balance them? How to pick the correct monster (one which is
>> >as strong as my players are) from the monster list in book III?
>>> 
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