[PnP] pnp Digest, Vol 136, Issue 5

David Sanders dasandersx at comcast.net
Fri Feb 17 22:30:22 CET 2017


I suggest that only imps be allowed as familiars.  If you look through the list of summon able creatures, none of the others makes a good, willing, servant.  They are too willful.

They are physical beings here in this world.  They aren't possessing a cat, for example, but they are turning into one.  You could argue that they could turn into just about anything so long as they have the power.  Keep in mind the imp is an especially powerless demon, but it's still a demon!  You might want to create some way for it to increase in size, say over time as it sups on the witches teat.  Perhaps for some limited time after entertaining itself on the witch, it has more power for a while, so might
Be able to do more.

The familiar does provide some substantial benefit for the witch.  The limits are that the witch must serve Sammael's court, so aren't likely to be good guys.

The larger the imp, the larger can be the animals it can change into.  At some point, say when the imp becomes a 2x size imp, it might be able to become a terrestrial demon...and then it refuses to change into an animal an, instead, chooses to simply possess humans and animals.

The imp must be willing. If not, you are playing with hell-fire!  If unwilling, whatever creature it is would work toward the death of whomever were enslaving it.  Intelligence placed it items

The familiar does give power already.  "Those who have familiars cast their magic at ONE EL higher than the EL cast. They also increase their casting speed by two and their MDV by three."
 That's a nice benefit!

The imp might want things other than the energy it consumes...maybe it keeps pushing the witch to provide, er, snacks (like Hansel & Gretel).  Motivation would depend on the imp.  Stealing magic items would be clever, especially if useable against the witch.  Motivations of creatures is often difficult.  Why do they do what they do?  For instance...what does a Sylph want?

You control an unwilling familiar by binding it to an object...swords, for instance, or you have to find some way to bind it to a control object. The control object is a very dangerous thing to create.  If you lose it, and there are tons of ways that can happen, the enslaved creature is likely to hunt you down, plus your family and associates.  You would need to have 'something' that makes the creature vulnerable to you...hair, body parts, blood, True Name, etc.  Old style magic had a unique 'True Name' given to you, often in a ceremony.  Think 'Kunte Kinte', and that little ceremony.  If you had a creatures, or person's, True Name, you could command it to do things.

If I was going to summon something that could remember who I am, and have the effrontery to summon said creature, I would want to make darn sure that I made it worth it's while!  Or make it impossible for it to attack me in the future.


Sent from my iPad

> On Feb 15, 2017, at 3:00 AM, pnp-request at list.powersandperils.org wrote:
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>   1. Re: pnp Digest, Vol 136, Issue 3 (Scott Adams)
> 
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> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2017 00:53:24 -0500
> From: Scott Adams <longshotgm at comcast.net>
> To: The Powers and Perils Mailing List <pnp at list.powersandperils.org>
> Subject: Re: [PnP] pnp Digest, Vol 136, Issue 3
> Message-ID: <mailman.2.1487156401.17945.pnp at list.powersandperils.org>
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> 
> Yeah.  I just don't see that as a classic familiar.  It seems Richard 
> only wanted imps.  To me a familiar should be voluntary and 
> indentured.  So a classic black cat or a horse would nto want 
> anything but companionship.  But by that nature they give no power.
> 
> I just think we need to figure out more rules.
> 
> * What entails a Familiar? Spirits? Any animal? Supernatural Force?
> * Should it be willing or not?
> * Does Familiar give power? Other effects?
> * What cost if any does Familiar require?
> * How does one control said familiar if not willing.
> * Will it stay based on basic summoning rules or longer?
> 
> Lots to consider.
> 
> PS sorry for the wrong post in list.  Wasn't me but he posted here 
> than in other list. :<
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At 04:44 PM 2/13/2017, you wrote:
>> The reason an imp stays with anyone for years is because he gets 
>> something for it (Energy and sex!) without possibility of harm.  The 
>> other demons already have power, so they are highly unlikely to 
>> become a familiar unless they can get more out of it than they might 
>> normally otherwise. Even when a demon is summoned, and 'controlled', 
>> it's of very short duration.  And, to be blunt, if you don't give it 
>> what it wants, which will take a truly heinous act, it's going to be 
>> very angry with you and probably exact some form of revenge.  The 
>> only thing keeping it from you is that it must be difficult for 
>> demons to enter this world...or else there would be lots and lots of 
>> demons in your game.
>> 
>> Also, most demons have very specific names, at least the intelligent 
>> ones and the more powerful ones.  That name would have to be 
>> determined in order to gain any control.  Perhaps even to force its appearance.
>> 
>> If you look at the descriptions of the demons, it pretty much tells 
>> you what it wants.  A decay demon gains the energy drawn from his 
>> victims, same with a disease demon, etc.  it makes them more 
>> powerful.  Those without described energy drains (physical threats 
>> only) might gain power and prestige by the number of victims they 
>> slay or cause to be slain.  Terrestrial demons gain power by the 
>> energy they gain from possessing humans (the human fades over time 
>> and dies without intervention).
>> 
>> Familiars, in effect, become indentured servants.  They are paid in blood.
>> 
>> Any creature stuck (enslaved) because of a controlling device is not 
>> going to be very happy with the owner of that device.
>> 
>> Sent from my iPad
>> 
>>> On Feb 13, 2017, at 3:00 AM, pnp-request at list.powersandperils.org wrote:
>>> 
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>>> Today's Topics:
>>> 
>>>  1. Re: pnp Digest, Vol 136, Issue 2 (Bessie Hadley)
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> 
>>> Message: 1
>>> Date: Sun, 12 Feb 2017 19:27:19 +0000 (UTC)
>>> From: Bessie Hadley <eleabess at sbcglobal.net>
>>> To: <pnp at list.powersandperils.org>
>>> Subject: Re: [PnP] pnp Digest, Vol 136, Issue 2
>>> Message-ID: <710646610.3184015.1486927639029 at mail.yahoo.com>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>>> 
>>> Added a couple of suggestions/comment below, from d kerr's
>> letter. I hadn't thought on this much, since I haven't created 
>> anyone who would want to summon a demon. But I have gathered ideas 
>> from other sf books, so comments below, which I would tend to use 
>> if & when I have such a character
>>> 
>>> ["retain control" that's the critical section.  To me
>>> this implies as
>>> long as the summoning control lasts.
>>> "demon can be used" kinda conflicts with that control by
>>> saying as
>>> long as he cna be used (though i could see that as long as
>>> the poor
>>> demon is alive?).]
>>> Send pnp mailing list submissions to
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>>> Today's Topics:
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>>>  1. Re: pnp Digest, Vol 136, Issue 2 (Bessie Hadley)
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> 
>>> Message: 1
>>> Date: Sun, 12 Feb 2017 19:27:19 +0000 (UTC)
>>> From: Bessie Hadley <eleabess at sbcglobal.net>
>>> To: <pnp at list.powersandperils.org>
>>> Subject: Re: [PnP] pnp Digest, Vol 136, Issue 2
>>> Message-ID: <710646610.3184015.1486927639029 at mail.yahoo.com>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>>> 
>>> Added a couple of suggestions/comment below, from d kerr's
>> letter. I hadn't thought on this much, since I haven't created 
>> anyone who would want to summon a demon. But I have gathered ideas 
>> from other sf books, so comments below, which I would tend to use 
>> if & when I have such a character
>>> 
>>> ["retain control" that's the critical section.  To me
>>> this implies as
>>> long as the summoning control lasts.
>>> "demon can be used" kinda conflicts with that control by
>>> saying as
>>> long as he cna be used (though i could see that as long as
>>> the poor
>>> demon is alive?).]
>>> --------->>> seems to me that control lasts as long as the spell
>> strength/success allows. As to what use you would put it, it feels 
>> dangerous to ask too great a thing of it, altho' I think it would 
>> complain that such a task was beyond its powers & might need 
>> browbeating/threats to get it to obey to its own limits. As to when 
>> that control ends, the demon should be forced (as part of the 
>> spell) to return to its "home" - unless there is a weakness in the 
>> spell, which would tempt the demon (if angry enough at being 
>> summoned & ordered around) to attack the one who called it.
>>> 
>>> If, when a demon is summoned repeatedly, it is treated with some
>> respect (but not with fear) and it knowledge used in a manner to 
>> please it, it might develop a respect for its caller & be more 
>> willing to stick around & help (altho' this does not seem a demon's 
>> nature, really - unless its peers browbeat/bully it & it wants a 
>> friend, even one from another realm)
>>> - - - - - - -
>>> [ So now i
>>> don't see how
>>> one could summon a demon adn it stays for years.
>>> 
>>> But i could also see that if the demon is
>>> influnced/controled theen
>>> why would he not want to stay?  Ugh.]
>>> ------------>>>>>> I don't see a demon staying for years - I
>> don't think a spell's power would last for very long at all. I also 
>> don't think the spellcaster would care to have the demon staying 
>> around all that long
>>> But I can see casting the spell to summon it frequently, & a
>> relationship developing from that - anything from a constantly 
>> complaining & conniving,lying demon seeking to destroy the summoner 
>> by "obeying" commands in its own sly way (adding additional twists 
>> to words or doing secret things in addition to following orders) - 
>> to a relationship that embodies some trust & friendship (if in a 
>> sideways sort of way - being as it's with a demon & all - lol). The 
>> relationship should be built upon the natures of both the wizard & 
>> the demon summoned (& who might have to face punishment by its 
>> superiors if it behaves against its alignment or its superiors).
>>> 
>>> (Have you read Robert Aspirin's books, which are hilarious punny
>> stories of many magical races?)
>>> 
>>> You're giving me ideas for characters as part of a future story.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Bess L. Hadley
>>> 
>>> --------------------------------------------
>>>> On Sun, 2/12/17, pnp-request at list.powersandperils.org
>>> <pnp-request at list.powersandperils.org> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Subject: pnp Digest, Vol 136, Issue 2
>>> To: pnp at list.powersandperils.org
>>> Date: Sunday, February 12, 2017, 3:00 AM
>>> 
>>> Send pnp mailing list submissions to
>>> ??? pnp at list.powersandperils.org
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>>> Today's Topics:
>>> 
>>> ???1. Maelorna's response to Z'leyra (d
>>> kerr)
>>> ???2. Re: Question about famliars (Scott
>>> Adams)
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> 
>>> Message: 1
>>> Date: Sat, 11 Feb 2017 08:33:21 -0500
>>> From: d kerr <megumimika at gmail.com>
>>> To: pnp at list.powersandperils.org
>>> Subject: [PnP] Maelorna's response to Z'leyra
>>> Message-ID:
>>> ??? <CAD17R1iQTQLkOVvoY+CLNAJ2YMjbJnau9nCsPOnRwUvUvy2TXw at mail.gmail.com>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>> 
>>> Maelorna smiles and nods, "As you say, it was an offer and
>>> freely given."
>>> as she steps back, the look of pure innocence on her face as
>>> she looks
>>> about, meeting the eyes of the men who look at her, holding
>>> their gaze for
>>> a moment before continuing to look about.? "Honestly
>>> from the way they are
>>> looking at me, I do not believe that would even be an
>>> issue." she muses and
>>> chuckles softly.
>>> 
>>> As she reaches up to make sure her earrings are still
>>> attached, '*You
>>> stupid girl, did you honestly think I was not able to hear
>>> what you spoke
>>> about?*' the voice almost bellows in her head.? '*You
>>> speak about avoiding
>>> the reunion and do that which would bring about your
>>> destruction.*'
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>>> ------------------------------
>>> 
>>> Message: 2
>>> Date: Sat, 11 Feb 2017 20:29:49 -0500
>>> From: Scott Adams <longshotgm at comcast.net>
>>> To: The Powers and Perils Mailing List <pnp at list.powersandperils.org>
>>> Subject: Re: [PnP] Question about famliars
>>> Message-ID: <mailman.2.1486897201.19929.pnp at list.powersandperils.org>
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>>> 
>>>> I'm in Scott's game, he suggested asking on here.
>>> 
>>> Yep.? I encourage many to post here.? Sadly not
>>> many do.? There are
>>> many good players and GMS and a community is nothing
>>> without
>>> sharing of ideas.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> With Hell Powers, Summoning Demons, the second part,
>>> creating a
>>>> familiar bond with a demon,?? is that mostly for
>>> item creation or
>>>> is it something more along the lines, summoning the
>>> demon and having
>>>> it effectively become a pet that lasts as long as you
>>> don't let it
>>>> get killed?
>>> 
>>> First part is clear summoning demons is cheaper. Clear.
>>> Second part.? Hmmm
>>> 'familiar bond' to me is more a bond not a familiar in the
>>> classic sense
>>> to me but i could see how it could be read that way.
>>> "retain control" that's the critical section.? To me
>>> this implies as
>>> long as the summoning control lasts.
>>> "demon can be used" kinda conflicts with that control by
>>> saying as
>>> long as he cna be used (though i could see that as long as
>>> the poor
>>> demon is alive?).
>>> 
>>> So to me this implies can control the demon as long as
>>> summonign
>>> control lasts. But this then is a bit redandant with the
>>> basic
>>> spell other than the cheaper cost.? hmm? So now i
>>> don't see how
>>> one could summon a demon adn it stays for years.
>>> 
>>> But i could also see that if the demon is
>>> influnced/controled theen
>>> why would he not want to stay?? Ugh.
>>> 
>>> This is why I wanted more input from others.? Its a bit
>>> vague.
>>> 
>>>> Or do the rules apply as with item creation: familiar
>>> where the demon
>>>> you've created a familiar bond with, is going to rip
>>> you apart the
>>>> first time it gets?
>>> 
>>> This is how I see it leaning that way to me.? I'm
>>> hoping to
>>> see more arguments to show sides i am missing.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
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>>> End of pnp Digest, Vol 136, Issue 2
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>>> End of pnp Digest, Vol 136, Issue 3
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