[PnP] how virgin is virgin enough?

[Burton Choinski]

I'm working on a deep refiguring of the P&P economy for my game,  
somewhat based on RQ concepts but also based on real-world data.  The  
problem is that it's all bottom up, so I'm only really at the food- 
stuffs stage and have not gotten into the crafted goods yet.

On Feb 9, 2009, at 6:39 PM, J Hooten wrote:

> Natural magics is a major problem area.
> They are quite valuable yet quite fragile under the rules.
> If I recall correctly they imply a dispel can ruin the material  
> somewhere?
> Also a failed enhance ruins the material in many cases, gems  
> especially.
> So some method to repair these gems is needed or literally there  
> wont be
> any more gems to enhance.
> Its a major magic economics question!
>
> If its too easy to break and hard to fix then the gems 'value' is  
> lower
> and an enhanced one is much higher
> You would only try to enhance one in the best purified and other  
> boosted
> means as its nearly irreplaceable.
> If its easy to fix then the failures are not a big deal and the  
> price of
> virgin gems goes up and enhanced ones down some.
>
> I always ran a version of Purification can be used to remove others
> effects and thus return things to 'virgin' but that may have been  
> too easy.
> Maybe the El used has to exceed the El on the object before it can  
> work?
> If it was enhanced it could still have an MDV to resist being  
> purified,
> but once more low level casters that fail will have little penalty
> So either of those do not limit things much
> Set the effective MDV higher? Like 20 area?
> Thats enough to scare away lower level casters.
> Or set two levels, one for failed one for abysmals?
> Or use same but set the failure of the purify on abysmal is an  
> abysmal?
> So badly failed objects would be risky to bring back but possible.
>
> But remember any of this is setting part of the magic economics of the
> game and should be checked carefully!
>
> There already exists unbalance in the economics.
> Large metal items are much harder to make than small ones.
> Wood or Leather items are easiest to make.
> Thus your small amulets and various other items can be made quickly  
> and
> cheap.
> But major armors require much more time and materials even though the
> magic used may be the same.
> You may wish to set the skill check needed for enchantable works  
> high to
> limit the junk magic.
> Of course some decide certain rituals are needed and thus set more
> effort for all magic creations.
> Nothing wrong with that, its just house rules setting the economic
> factors again.
>
> Item costs should figure some factor for that labor as well as the  
> magic
> and Mages should not work cheap.
> So much per day plus so much per mana used plus expenses seems fair.
> Note that mana and labor costs will go up based on Mel or other such
> factors, so you pay much more for higher quality work.
>
> If anyone has a pricing guide for regular items, I can try to fit a
> formula to them that follows such rules.
> I have been wanting to work it out but never settled on a good price  
> range.
>
>
>
> Alex Koponen wrote:
>> As both GM and player (with enchanter) I play that only the last  
>> stage
>> of manufacture from raw materials is necessary for one to be able to
>> enchant it. As GM I would give minor bonuses to those who  
>> competently do
>> the earlier stages as well.
>>
>> Example A: Enchanter cannot enchant boots that were made by another
>> bootmaker or even from leather precut and marked by another  
>> bootmaker,
>> but can enchant boots he makes even though copying another  
>> bootmaker's
>> pattern and using leather bought from the tanner, butcher or
>> slaughterhouse...he doesn't need to raise, kill, skin and tan the
>> leather himself...though I would give minor bonuses if he did so. I
>> would give slightly bigger bonuses for the closer stages, in this  
>> case
>> tanning than for skinning, etc.
>>
>> Example B: I would allow a minor bonus to an enchanter using raw  
>> ore to
>> make the iron and steel of a weapon or armor. I would also allow the
>> enchanter to roll with no bonus or penalty should he be working from
>> pigs of iron bought from a source that was iron ore. I would impose a
>> penalty of a small chance of automatic failure of enchantments if the
>> item was made from scrap that might include some material that was
>> either already enchanted by someone else or had previously failed  
>> being
>> enchanted/enhanced/ensorcelled. If the scrap did include such then  
>> the
>> final product would automatically fail when permanent magics were  
>> cast
>> upon it. This failure might have an increased chance of an Abysmal.  
>> So
>> using Detection, Perception or some other method of determining the
>> 'virgin' status of what you are about to work on or use permanent  
>> magics
>> on is a wise precaution. Exception: If instead of just to a red  or
>> white heat the scrap was fully melted to a liquid state then it would
>> regain its 'virgin' status. Note that a forge melting iron is much
>> hotter than the usual forge used for pounding out iron and steel.
>>
>> This makes enchanting jewelry and gems problematical as unless you  
>> have
>> dug up the gem yourself the odds are good that someone else has  
>> already
>> tried to enhance, enchant or ensorcel it. Large flawless 'virgin'  
>> gems
>> would have quite a premium over other gems due to the demand by magic
>> users and their clients. Dwarves and most large mining operations  
>> likely
>> have set traditions, rules and laws pertaining to who gets the  
>> chance to
>> cast magic upon enhanceable gemstones. Restoring the 'virgin'  
>> status of
>> gems is quite likely impossible for low MEL enchanters...perhaps
>> possible for high MEL enchanters. To do so would at a minimum require
>> high EL in Dispel and Regeneration spell variants.
>>
>>
>>
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