[PnP] how virgin is virgin enough?

[Burton Choinski]

The problem is that it will all have a cascade effect, forcing me to  
redo my construction, armorer and ship building documents. :P


On Feb 10, 2009, at 3:38 PM, Wout Broere wrote:

> Even now I can't wait till this is finished. I expect it to be in line
> with your other economic stuff, so the detail will be fabulous.
>
> With the risk of sounding like Scott: how about including prices for
> magic items also (big, big grin).
>
> ;>
>
> Wout
>
> Burton Choinski wrote:
>> I'm working on a deep refiguring of the P&P economy for my game,
>> somewhat based on RQ concepts but also based on real-world data.  The
>> problem is that it's all bottom up, so I'm only really at the food-
>> stuffs stage and have not gotten into the crafted goods yet.
>>
>> On Feb 9, 2009, at 6:39 PM, J Hooten wrote:
>>
>>> Natural magics is a major problem area.
>>> They are quite valuable yet quite fragile under the rules.
>>> If I recall correctly they imply a dispel can ruin the material
>>> somewhere?
>>> Also a failed enhance ruins the material in many cases, gems
>>> especially.
>>> So some method to repair these gems is needed or literally there
>>> wont be
>>> any more gems to enhance.
>>> Its a major magic economics question!
>>>
>>> If its too easy to break and hard to fix then the gems 'value' is
>>> lower
>>> and an enhanced one is much higher
>>> You would only try to enhance one in the best purified and other
>>> boosted
>>> means as its nearly irreplaceable.
>>> If its easy to fix then the failures are not a big deal and the
>>> price of
>>> virgin gems goes up and enhanced ones down some.
>>>
>>> I always ran a version of Purification can be used to remove others
>>> effects and thus return things to 'virgin' but that may have been
>>> too easy.
>>> Maybe the El used has to exceed the El on the object before it can
>>> work?
>>> If it was enhanced it could still have an MDV to resist being
>>> purified,
>>> but once more low level casters that fail will have little penalty
>>> So either of those do not limit things much
>>> Set the effective MDV higher? Like 20 area?
>>> Thats enough to scare away lower level casters.
>>> Or set two levels, one for failed one for abysmals?
>>> Or use same but set the failure of the purify on abysmal is an
>>> abysmal?
>>> So badly failed objects would be risky to bring back but possible.
>>>
>>> But remember any of this is setting part of the magic economics of  
>>> the
>>> game and should be checked carefully!
>>>
>>> There already exists unbalance in the economics.
>>> Large metal items are much harder to make than small ones.
>>> Wood or Leather items are easiest to make.
>>> Thus your small amulets and various other items can be made quickly
>>> and
>>> cheap.
>>> But major armors require much more time and materials even though  
>>> the
>>> magic used may be the same.
>>> You may wish to set the skill check needed for enchantable works
>>> high to
>>> limit the junk magic.
>>> Of course some decide certain rituals are needed and thus set more
>>> effort for all magic creations.
>>> Nothing wrong with that, its just house rules setting the economic
>>> factors again.
>>>
>>> Item costs should figure some factor for that labor as well as the
>>> magic
>>> and Mages should not work cheap.
>>> So much per day plus so much per mana used plus expenses seems fair.
>>> Note that mana and labor costs will go up based on Mel or other such
>>> factors, so you pay much more for higher quality work.
>>>
>>> If anyone has a pricing guide for regular items, I can try to fit a
>>> formula to them that follows such rules.
>>> I have been wanting to work it out but never settled on a good price
>>> range.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Alex Koponen wrote:
>>>> As both GM and player (with enchanter) I play that only the last
>>>> stage
>>>> of manufacture from raw materials is necessary for one to be able  
>>>> to
>>>> enchant it. As GM I would give minor bonuses to those who
>>>> competently do
>>>> the earlier stages as well.
>>>>
>>>> Example A: Enchanter cannot enchant boots that were made by another
>>>> bootmaker or even from leather precut and marked by another
>>>> bootmaker,
>>>> but can enchant boots he makes even though copying another
>>>> bootmaker's
>>>> pattern and using leather bought from the tanner, butcher or
>>>> slaughterhouse...he doesn't need to raise, kill, skin and tan the
>>>> leather himself...though I would give minor bonuses if he did so. I
>>>> would give slightly bigger bonuses for the closer stages, in this
>>>> case
>>>> tanning than for skinning, etc.
>>>>
>>>> Example B: I would allow a minor bonus to an enchanter using raw
>>>> ore to
>>>> make the iron and steel of a weapon or armor. I would also allow  
>>>> the
>>>> enchanter to roll with no bonus or penalty should he be working  
>>>> from
>>>> pigs of iron bought from a source that was iron ore. I would  
>>>> impose a
>>>> penalty of a small chance of automatic failure of enchantments if  
>>>> the
>>>> item was made from scrap that might include some material that was
>>>> either already enchanted by someone else or had previously failed
>>>> being
>>>> enchanted/enhanced/ensorcelled. If the scrap did include such then
>>>> the
>>>> final product would automatically fail when permanent magics were
>>>> cast
>>>> upon it. This failure might have an increased chance of an Abysmal.
>>>> So
>>>> using Detection, Perception or some other method of determining the
>>>> 'virgin' status of what you are about to work on or use permanent
>>>> magics
>>>> on is a wise precaution. Exception: If instead of just to a red  or
>>>> white heat the scrap was fully melted to a liquid state then it  
>>>> would
>>>> regain its 'virgin' status. Note that a forge melting iron is much
>>>> hotter than the usual forge used for pounding out iron and steel.
>>>>
>>>> This makes enchanting jewelry and gems problematical as unless you
>>>> have
>>>> dug up the gem yourself the odds are good that someone else has
>>>> already
>>>> tried to enhance, enchant or ensorcel it. Large flawless 'virgin'
>>>> gems
>>>> would have quite a premium over other gems due to the demand by  
>>>> magic
>>>> users and their clients. Dwarves and most large mining operations
>>>> likely
>>>> have set traditions, rules and laws pertaining to who gets the
>>>> chance to
>>>> cast magic upon enhanceable gemstones. Restoring the 'virgin'
>>>> status of
>>>> gems is quite likely impossible for low MEL enchanters...perhaps
>>>> possible for high MEL enchanters. To do so would at a minimum  
>>>> require
>>>> high EL in Dispel and Regeneration spell variants.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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