[PnP] Enhancement limitations, new gems

Bryan Tallant grumani at roadrunner.com
Wed Dec 10 20:34:33 CET 2014


This is a good debate.  I am definitely in the "It's the material, not the
mage" camp.  I don't see enhancing a magical material and a jeweler's skill
in cutting and polishing gems as equivalent (I know a couple of gemcutters).
I see it as these materials should, in general, be rare and/or very hard to
obtain and that the cost of using them is therein, not something to be paid
by the mage in enhancing it.  I suppose there could be different specific
versions of enhancement depending on the type of material to spice up access
a bit.  The only reason to up your enhancement skill is the risk of failure
after obtaining such a rare, expensive, or hard-to-get item--which can be
quite the anticlimax for a player after a full quest to get it.

I like the list of potential additional items.  Some of them are very
common, but a useable (large, perfect) sample is very rare.  The proposed
rock quartz should be a relatively weak effect (maybe a % chance of getting
some of the effects listed) as it is a very common material in our world
(I'm a geologist), but I suppose it could be rare in the characters' world.
Hematite is also a very common material - I might tweak that one a bit if I
use it.

-----Original Message-----
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Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2014 3:00 AM
To: pnp at list.powersandperils.org
Subject: pnp Digest, Vol 112, Issue 6

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Today's Topics:

   1. Re: pnp Digest, Vol 112, Issue 1 (Burton Choinski)
   2. Re: Enhancement limitations, new gems (Burton Choinski)
   3. Re: pnp Digest, Vol 112, Issue 1 ( Thomas O. Magann Jr.)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Mon, 08 Dec 2014 06:21:09 -0500
From: Burton Choinski <bchoinski at verizon.net>
To: " Thomas O. Magann Jr." <tmagann at earthlink.net>, The Powers and
	Perils Mailing List <pnp at list.powersandperils.org>
Subject: Re: [PnP] pnp Digest, Vol 112, Issue 1
Message-ID: <4F70AACE-854B-4538-B1EF-3C47020BCE3C at verizon.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

But it's the caster's use of magic that brings out the natural power, as
much as a Jeweler's skill brings out the value of a gemstone.  lower skill
produces lower results.

On Dec 5, 2014, at 11:32 AM, Thomas O. Magann Jr. wrote:

> 
> 
> Yes, natural magic can be powerful, but tying power levels to the
enhancement spell makes then manufactured magic, not natural. That's the
point: their power levels are NATURAL not impossed by a spell.
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
>> From: David Sanders <dasandersx at comcast.net>
>> Sent: Dec 4, 2014 8:47 PM
>> To: "pnp at list.powersandperils.org" <pnp at list.powersandperils.org>
>> Subject: Re: [PnP] pnp Digest, Vol 112, Issue 1
>> 
>> I have always thought that enhancement should vary with both the MEL as
well as the EL and that natural magic items were WAY too powerful.  The more
powerful items or attributes would require high MEL to be able to bring them
forth.  The EL can be used to vary the 'plusses'.  For instance, enhanced
agate could increase Eloquence by 5+EL...starting at MEL3.  It could add
EL/2 to MDV vs storm powers at MEL 5.  At MEL 10 the item could provide EL
immunity to emotional spells...etc.  
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Dave Sanders
>> 
>> Sent from my iPad
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Today's Topics:
>>> 
>>>  1. Enhancement limitations, new gems (Burton Choinski)
>>> 
>>> 
>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> --
>>> 
>>> Message: 1
>>> Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2014 17:07:59 -0500
>>> From: Burton Choinski <bchoinski at verizon.net>
>>> To: The Powers and Perils Mailing List 
>>> <pnp at list.powersandperils.org>
>>> Subject: [PnP] Enhancement limitations, new gems
>>> Message-ID: <F2961015-D49B-4742-A8B4-4763555E4593 at verizon.net>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>>> 
>>> Enhancement is a spell where what you put into it will determine what
you get out...one simply cannot cast EL0 and end up with a +20 STR gemstone.
Why would you ever cast (or need) higher levels?
>>> 
>>> When Enhancement is cast on a material, the EL is a limiter to any
enhanced effects.  Any EL or BL gain is limited to (EL+1)x2; any attribute
value is limited to (EL+1)x5.
>>> 
>>> ---------------------
>>> In my campaign (using a custom system), my players have been exploring
the upper world via a series of "dungeon crawls" using Pathfinder sources.
However, some of the gems returned were not listed in book 4, so I have to
dive into the web to look up supposed mythological properties, or derive
them from existing gems.  The following new gems have been derived so far,
if you want to throw something different at your players.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Ivory
>>> Unenhanced ivory has no magical value. Enhanced, it will grant the
following benefits:
>>> a) As a talisman, the wearer subtracts FIVE from all poison resistance
rolls.
>>> b) When drinking from an enhanced Ivory cup any poison BL is reduced by
by 5.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Salt Water Pearl
>>> Unenhanced salt water pearl has no magical value. The enhanced item 
>>> will give the following benefits to the wearer:
>>> A) Per TEN days that pass, the wearer will age one day.
>>> B) in combat, any attacker must add FIVE to his combat roll.
>>> C) The wearer's MDV is doubled against Sea Powers, and Desiccation.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Deep Blue Spinel
>>> Unenhanced spinel has no magical value. When enhanced, a Deep Blue
Spinel grants the following benefits:
>>> A) Increase MDV against diseases by TEN
>>> B) Automatically detect the presence of hostile, kotothi-aligned forces
1d6 turns before they can attack.
>>> C) The wearer is totally immune to Fascination, Abandon and other 
>>> attention-affecting spells.  The wearer does not lose focus on his
current target.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Zircon
>>> Unenhanced Zircon has no value. When enhanced and worn the wearer has
the following benefits:
>>> A) The MDV is increased by FIVE against Chaos magic.
>>> B) Increase Stamina by TWENTY.
>>> C) The wearer adds FIVE to any missile attack rolls against them.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Hematite
>>> Unenhanced Hematite has no value. When enhanced and worn the wearer has
the following benefits:
>>> A) The MDV is increased by FIVE against Fascination or other
will-affecting spells.
>>> B) When worn, the user's DTV is DOUBLED.
>>> C) The wearer of a Hematite has DOUBLE their normal Healing Ability
(double any HP healed).
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Tiger's Eye
>>> Unenhanced Tiger's Eye has no value. When enhanced and worn the wearer
has the following benefits:
>>> A) The wearer's MDV is increased by FIVE against any emotion affecting
spells.
>>> B) In any cases where the wearer must make a Will roll, subtract TEN
from their roll.
>>> C) The wearer has EL 5 immunity to the Pain spell.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Rock Quartz
>>> Unenhanced Rock Quartz has no value. When enhanced and worn the wearer
has the following benefits:
>>> A) If boiled in water, the resulting fluid will negate any poison up to
BL5.
>>> B) If so desired, in any case where a child is desired, any sexual
encounter will always produce a male child.
>>> C) If a simple ritual is performed, the next day will be overcast 
>>> and constantly rainiy...in tundra climes this will result in snow.  In
Desert climates there is no effect.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ------------------------------
>>> 
>>> Subject: Digest Footer
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> pnp mailing list
>>> pnp at list.powersandperils.org
>>> http://www.powersandperils.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pnp
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ------------------------------
>>> 
>>> End of pnp Digest, Vol 112, Issue 1
>>> ***********************************
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> pnp mailing list
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> 
> 
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------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Mon, 08 Dec 2014 09:02:26 -0500
From: Burton Choinski <bchoinski at verizon.net>
To: The Powers and Perils Mailing List <pnp at list.powersandperils.org>
Subject: Re: [PnP] Enhancement limitations, new gems
Message-ID: <2118A425-DB0F-49E8-A4B7-6E74F49E1EC3 at verizon.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8


>> Ivory
>> Unenhanced ivory has no magical value. Enhanced, it will grant the
following benefits:
>> a) As a talisman, the wearer subtracts FIVE from all poison resistance
rolls.
>> b) When drinking from an enhanced Ivory cup any poison BL is reduced by
by 5.
> 
> 
> When i think of Ivory I think of Elephant tusks.  This makes me thin k of
the large brain.  Good memory.
> So why not a Int based applicatoin?

I honestly did not think of Elephants, and ivory does come from other
sources.  The base was taken by doing a google search on ivory for
historical ?mythological properties?.  Perhaps a good ?c? entry can be made
for the source of the ivory ? Elephant grants improved memory when worn
(I+10), Rhino horn grants greater toughness (C+10).  Perhaps whale tooth
ivory could be good for endurance (St+10).


>> Salt Water Pearl
>> Unenhanced salt water pearl has no magical value. The enhanced item 
>> will give the following benefits to the wearer:
>> A) Per TEN days that pass, the wearer will age one day.
>> B) in combat, any attacker must add FIVE to his combat roll.
>> C) The wearer's MDV is doubled against Sea Powers, and Desiccation.
> 
> Salt.  Makes you thirsty.  Soo...why not a benefit to make you LESS
thirsty a good desert traveller.
> or again a desert aspect (opposite of water) one does not sweat which
improves endurance and such.

The original book 4 had Pearl, so I based it off that with tweaks.  


>> Deep Blue Spinel
>> Unenhanced spinel has no magical value. When enhanced, a Deep Blue Spinel
grants the following benefits:
>> A) Increase MDV against diseases by TEN
>> B) Automatically detect the presence of hostile, kotothi-aligned forces
1d6 turns before they can attack.
>> C) The wearer is totally immune to Fascination, Abandon and other 
>> attention-affecting spells.  The wearer does not lose focus on his
current target.
> 
> This item is what?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spinel

I think I took an existing gem in book 4 as a base (the original ?B? was vs.
Chaos) and tweaked it based on what my google search pulled up.


>> Zircon
>> Unenhanced Zircon has no value. When enhanced and worn the wearer has the
following benefits:
>> A) The MDV is increased by FIVE against Chaos magic.
>> B) Increase Stamina by TWENTY.
>> C) The wearer adds FIVE to any missile attack rolls against them.
> 
> Interesting.  I'm dead but Zircon as in fake gems?  Why not some gem
benefit? Play on the material of sorts.
> Helps to ID gems or detect gems or detect levelof quality.


It?s not the same as fake diamonds (cubic Zirconia), though I may have
thought that when I made this one.  I?ll need to revisit it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zircon


>> Hematite
>> Unenhanced Hematite has no value. When enhanced and worn the wearer has
the following benefits:
>> A) The MDV is increased by FIVE against Fascination or other
will-affecting spells.
>> B) When worn, the user's DTV is DOUBLED.
>> C) The wearer of a Hematite has DOUBLE their normal Healing Ability
(double any HP healed).
>> 
>> C is worth it.  Maybe I'm slap happy.  I think of this as a Earthy thing
if i recal.  so some Earthy aspect.  Underground/earth spels. etc.

Hematite, due to it?s red color has always been associated with blood.
Entry C may be too powerful, perhaps just double the HC is good enough.


>> Tiger's Eye
>> Unenhanced Tiger's Eye has no value. When enhanced and worn the wearer
has the following benefits:
>> A) The wearer's MDV is increased by FIVE against any emotion affecting
spells.
>> B) In any cases where the wearer must make a Will roll, subtract TEN from
their roll.
>> C) The wearer has EL 5 immunity to the Pain spell.
>> 
>> So this is more the Folk version than the actual Tony the Tiger 
>> actual eye :)
> 
> But a good oe for this one.


I think this was based purely off the google search, with the spells and
values based on other gems.


>> Rock Quartz
>> Unenhanced Rock Quartz has no value. When enhanced and worn the wearer
has the following benefits:
>> A) If boiled in water, the resulting fluid will negate any poison up to
BL5.
>> B) If so desired, in any case where a child is desired, any sexual
encounter will always produce a male child.
>> C) If a simple ritual is performed, the next day will be overcast and 
>> constantly rainiy...in tundra climes this will result in snow.  In Desert
climates there is no effect.
> 
> Interesting I guess this would be a very common item.  But maybe I'm
thinking of basic quartz.


Rock quartz is the especially clear version, not the normal cloudy white
quartz.  I would expect it to be hard to find.


There are other gems likely to be created as my players due this stuff.  As
I find new gems I?ll have to figure them out and I?ll post them here.  I?ll
see about posting updated versions of the above ones later on.





------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2014 08:30:31 -0800 (GMT-08:00)
From: " Thomas O. Magann Jr." <tmagann at earthlink.net>
To: Burton Choinski <bchoinski at verizon.net>,  The Powers and Perils
	Mailing List <pnp at list.powersandperils.org>
Subject: Re: [PnP] pnp Digest, Vol 112, Issue 1
Message-ID:
	
<13004982.1418056231079.JavaMail.root at mswamui-thinleaf.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
	
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8


With most natural items, yes, but not all. And  lower power is already
defined: skill in the spell determines how much is awakened by a given
casting. Quantity, not quality. Quality is purely the natural magic in the
natural magic item. The spell is a catalyst, not an empowering agent.
Assuming its necessary at all. It isn't always.



-----Original Message-----
>From: Burton Choinski <bchoinski at verizon.net>
>Sent: Dec 8, 2014 3:21 AM
>To: " Thomas O. Magann Jr." <tmagann at earthlink.net>, The Powers and 
>Perils Mailing List <pnp at list.powersandperils.org>
>Subject: Re: [PnP] pnp Digest, Vol 112, Issue 1
>
>But it's the caster's use of magic that brings out the natural power, as
much as a Jeweler's skill brings out the value of a gemstone.  lower skill
produces lower results.
>
>On Dec 5, 2014, at 11:32 AM, Thomas O. Magann Jr. wrote:
>
>> 
>> 
>> Yes, natural magic can be powerful, but tying power levels to the
enhancement spell makes then manufactured magic, not natural. That's the
point: their power levels are NATURAL not impossed by a spell.
>> 
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: David Sanders <dasandersx at comcast.net>
>>> Sent: Dec 4, 2014 8:47 PM
>>> To: "pnp at list.powersandperils.org" <pnp at list.powersandperils.org>
>>> Subject: Re: [PnP] pnp Digest, Vol 112, Issue 1
>>> 
>>> I have always thought that enhancement should vary with both the MEL as
well as the EL and that natural magic items were WAY too powerful.  The more
powerful items or attributes would require high MEL to be able to bring them
forth.  The EL can be used to vary the 'plusses'.  For instance, enhanced
agate could increase Eloquence by 5+EL...starting at MEL3.  It could add
EL/2 to MDV vs storm powers at MEL 5.  At MEL 10 the item could provide EL
immunity to emotional spells...etc.  
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Dave Sanders
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Today's Topics:
>>>> 
>>>>  1. Enhancement limitations, new gems (Burton Choinski)
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> ---
>>>> 
>>>> Message: 1
>>>> Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2014 17:07:59 -0500
>>>> From: Burton Choinski <bchoinski at verizon.net>
>>>> To: The Powers and Perils Mailing List 
>>>> <pnp at list.powersandperils.org>
>>>> Subject: [PnP] Enhancement limitations, new gems
>>>> Message-ID: <F2961015-D49B-4742-A8B4-4763555E4593 at verizon.net>
>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>>>> 
>>>> Enhancement is a spell where what you put into it will determine what
you get out...one simply cannot cast EL0 and end up with a +20 STR gemstone.
Why would you ever cast (or need) higher levels?
>>>> 
>>>> When Enhancement is cast on a material, the EL is a limiter to any
enhanced effects.  Any EL or BL gain is limited to (EL+1)x2; any attribute
value is limited to (EL+1)x5.
>>>> 
>>>> ---------------------
>>>> In my campaign (using a custom system), my players have been exploring
the upper world via a series of "dungeon crawls" using Pathfinder sources.
However, some of the gems returned were not listed in book 4, so I have to
dive into the web to look up supposed mythological properties, or derive
them from existing gems.  The following new gems have been derived so far,
if you want to throw something different at your players.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Ivory
>>>> Unenhanced ivory has no magical value. Enhanced, it will grant the
following benefits:
>>>> a) As a talisman, the wearer subtracts FIVE from all poison resistance
rolls.
>>>> b) When drinking from an enhanced Ivory cup any poison BL is reduced by
by 5.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Salt Water Pearl
>>>> Unenhanced salt water pearl has no magical value. The enhanced item 
>>>> will give the following benefits to the wearer:
>>>> A) Per TEN days that pass, the wearer will age one day.
>>>> B) in combat, any attacker must add FIVE to his combat roll.
>>>> C) The wearer's MDV is doubled against Sea Powers, and Desiccation.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Deep Blue Spinel
>>>> Unenhanced spinel has no magical value. When enhanced, a Deep Blue
Spinel grants the following benefits:
>>>> A) Increase MDV against diseases by TEN
>>>> B) Automatically detect the presence of hostile, kotothi-aligned forces
1d6 turns before they can attack.
>>>> C) The wearer is totally immune to Fascination, Abandon and other 
>>>> attention-affecting spells.  The wearer does not lose focus on his
current target.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Zircon
>>>> Unenhanced Zircon has no value. When enhanced and worn the wearer has
the following benefits:
>>>> A) The MDV is increased by FIVE against Chaos magic.
>>>> B) Increase Stamina by TWENTY.
>>>> C) The wearer adds FIVE to any missile attack rolls against them.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Hematite
>>>> Unenhanced Hematite has no value. When enhanced and worn the wearer has
the following benefits:
>>>> A) The MDV is increased by FIVE against Fascination or other
will-affecting spells.
>>>> B) When worn, the user's DTV is DOUBLED.
>>>> C) The wearer of a Hematite has DOUBLE their normal Healing Ability
(double any HP healed).
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Tiger's Eye
>>>> Unenhanced Tiger's Eye has no value. When enhanced and worn the wearer
has the following benefits:
>>>> A) The wearer's MDV is increased by FIVE against any emotion affecting
spells.
>>>> B) In any cases where the wearer must make a Will roll, subtract TEN
from their roll.
>>>> C) The wearer has EL 5 immunity to the Pain spell.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Rock Quartz
>>>> Unenhanced Rock Quartz has no value. When enhanced and worn the wearer
has the following benefits:
>>>> A) If boiled in water, the resulting fluid will negate any poison up to
BL5.
>>>> B) If so desired, in any case where a child is desired, any sexual
encounter will always produce a male child.
>>>> C) If a simple ritual is performed, the next day will be overcast 
>>>> and constantly rainiy...in tundra climes this will result in snow.  In
Desert climates there is no effect.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> ------------------------------
>>>> 
>>>> Subject: Digest Footer
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> pnp mailing list
>>>> pnp at list.powersandperils.org
>>>> http://www.powersandperils.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pnp
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> ------------------------------
>>>> 
>>>> End of pnp Digest, Vol 112, Issue 1
>>>> ***********************************
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> pnp mailing list
>>> pnp at list.powersandperils.org
>>> http://www.powersandperils.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pnp
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
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>




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