[PnP] Re: Navigation Woes

Mon Oct 2 03:26:30 CEST 2006

>>In my experience one gets lost when one doesn't have access to a 
>>reference point (sun, mountain, etc.). Those with no navigation skill 
>>and minimal or no survival skill may disregard potential reference 
>>points. Anyone (even the most skilled) without reference points can get 
>>lost. Those with higher navigation and survival skills will be more 
>>alert to seeing and keeping track of reference points.

That is what I envisioned this use of Navigation -- Higher skills indicate a better use of natural references or perceptive use of fixed objectives in order to maintain a constant direction.

And again, I wanted to give navigation some bite.  In past games players thought nothing of cross-country treks through open wilderness, expecting to end up exactly where they planned.  The intent was to put a little uncertainty in there, at least for those who have no reason to be sure of their paths (low Nav).

>>I am not sure what you mean by Navigation skill. Are you talking about 
>>skill with using a sextant, compass, timepiece and spherical 
>>trigonometry and using those items to calculate a specific longitude and 
>>latitude? If so, the iron age tech of P&P may well not be up to the 
>>task...especially concerning timepieces. The other items would be 
>>expensive and bulky.

I figured hair-shirt navigation.  Sun, stars, and visual references.  

>>Are you talking about familiarity of landscapes within 20 miles x EL?
>>Do you suggest making it a different skill for land than for sea?
>>Would an Area Knowledge - Geographic (locale) be the appropriate 
>>skill(s)? If so would it use the same skill progression as Navigation? 
>>Can one buy it for multiple locales?

I thought navigation had to be bought seperate for Sea navigation.

And yes, I would say that AK - Geo specific to the area would allow you to ignore the Nav matrix...you know the area.  I'm not sure how much area AK would allow (perhaps something on the order of EL/2 or EL/10 if an "or 80" in hexes of radius from a chosen hex.)

-----Original Message-----
From: pnp-bounces at abroere.xs4all.nl on behalf of Alex Koponen
Sent: Sun 10/1/2006 6:57 PM
To: The Powers and Perils Mailing List
Subject: Re: [PnP] Re: Navigation Woes

In my experience one gets lost when one doesn't have access to a 
reference point (sun, mountain, etc.). Those with no navigation skill 
and minimal or no survival skill may disregard potential reference 
points. Anyone (even the most skilled) without reference points can get 
lost. Those with higher navigation and survival skills will be more 
alert to seeing and keeping track of reference points.

Despite knowing that moss grows higher on the side of the tree trunk 
away from the equator (the sun dries it out more on the other side) I 
would be hard pressed to point closer than 15 degrees off, if in some 
random point in the forest on an overcast or cloudy day I was told to 
point in a specific compass direction.

I am not sure what you mean by Navigation skill. Are you talking about 
skill with using a sextant, compass, timepiece and spherical 
trigonometry and using those items to calculate a specific longitude and 
latitude? If so, the iron age tech of P&P may well not be up to the 
task...especially concerning timepieces. The other items would be 
expensive and bulky.

Are you talking about familiarity of landscapes within 20 miles x EL?
Do you suggest making it a different skill for land than for sea?
Would an Area Knowledge - Geographic (locale) be the appropriate 
skill(s)? If so would it use the same skill progression as Navigation? 
Can one buy it for multiple locales?

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Choinski, Burton" <Burton.Choinski at matrixone.com>
To: "The Powers and Perils Mailing List" <pnp at abroere.xs4all.nl>
Sent: Sunday, October 01, 2006 10:36 AM
Subject: RE: [PnP] Re: Navigation Woes

One could go with survival, but then where is the need for Navigation.

I'll grant that I don't have much experience with cross country travel, 
though I do have a good sence of direction.  I honestly have no idea how 
close to on target I would be over 100 miles, even with landmarks (and 
I'll grant the clearer air up there could give you 2-3 hexes of vision 
on a large landmark, but not so much down south in the murk).

I take it your primary concern is that top-of-the-line navigators should 
not be 20% of the time off the line (or even 10%, if you consider the 
level of survival they will probably have).

How about if I rejigger the numbers to be based on 2d10.  The bell curve 
will bite inexperienced more, and experienced less.  Basically, convert 
my 01-100 values to an appropriate (2d10-2)*5% scale.  This gives a 
target number range of 0-90, with everages in the 45's.  The odds of the 
high skill guys getting off track will be greatly reduced (possibly 
impossible, when a high enough survival is added, or bonuses for 
landmarks).

How does that sound?

-----Original Message-----
From: pnp-bounces at abroere.xs4all.nl on behalf of Alex Koponen
Sent: Sun 10/1/2006 12:49 AM
To: pnp at abroere.xs4all.nl
Subject: [PnP] Re: Navigation Woes

It is hard to place myself in the position of someone NOT having the
skills I have. Born and raised in Alaska I have also done enough hiking
and camping to have tired of it. I have never studied navigation as such
(I certainly don't know spherical trig.) but have picked up enough
tricks of the trade to be able to go cross-country fairly well. I might
not be able to cross 100 miles of wilderness without getting lost but I
suspect I could if there were decent reference points visible.

South of my house is the Alaska Range. Large mountains (5,000+ meters)
that tell you which way is south if you can see them. They are 70+ miles
away and I can see them quite well. If your vision is blocked by hills
you need only get to a ridgeline to see the shape of nearby hills and
ridges...this should tell you where you are if you are even mildly
familiar with the area. If lost, one can follow water downstream and you
will eventually get to a settlement in all but the least settled areas
on this planet.

It is hard for me to imagine being some city dweller that has no clue
how to tell direction in the wilderness. But yeah, I suspect that I have
a better survival skill in hills and forests thatn many city dwellers.

Perhaps using 10 x survival skill would work as well?

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